Suggestion: Increase scroll drop chance

[EddardStark]

As someone that played MapleGlobal and then Tales of Victoria for quite a bit I'd like to make the suggestion to increase scroll drop chance by either 1.5x or 2x.

Currently from remembering the numbers from Wacky's library/database the chance for a scroll is 1/33,333. So therefore I'd propose for it to be changed to either 1/16,666 or 1/22,222.

To do some calculations, under the current rate of 1/33,333.
Killing Jr. Yetis for 135 exp per kill, on average you'd need to gain 4,499,955 exp to get 1 60% Gloves for Attack scroll.
Assuming you would train at this one spot only from level 50-60, getting from level 50-60 is 9,129,166 total which would mean about 2 scrolls on average for 10 levels.

I think that from these numbers the rate of 1/33,333 is just too low. It takes many many hours of gameplay to get from level 50-60 and to only receive 2 scrolls for such a long time investment doesn't really make the game feel very rewarding. Also, the chances of scrolling a 10 att work glove (landing 5 60s in a row) which would be the goal of all melee classes is only 7.776%.

IMO increasing the scroll drop chance would therefore
- Increase satisfaction with gameplay.
- Increase motivation with gameplay as players are not only motivated by PPL2PASS and level but also on attaining good items.
- Have less people ragequit the server since there is nothing more demoralizing than spending hundreds of hours on a single map to find a 2-3 scrolls and then the scrolls fail.
- Encourage the El Nath maps to receive more love and encourage people to choose training spots more strategically.
- Increase community trade and community participation as players have resources to trade.
- Balance the gameplay as a 1/33,333 chance leads to only a few people attaining the scrolls and leveraging higher prices so they are unavailable for newer players.
- Even with a 1/16,666 or 1/22,222 chance it is still hard to find these items, especially as you will need multiple scrolls.
- Still have the game balanced as making a 10 att glove or 10 dex cape is still very RNG based and you would still need to farm many scrolls.

Feel free to contribute to discussion.
Also: tov

 

[Z00M]

Chose: Others, Keep 1x Vanilla and Progress into 1.5x (permanent) if need be if population base is <100 players after 2 months.

Reason: I agree the drop rates on vanilla is something to grasp for some players as we're too used to Private servers with 2x or more drop rates. For example, server A has 1x drop rate and 4th job, being a Mage and using ultimates almost always seems to have a good chance to get drops since they kill more at a faster pace than 3rd jobbers. Taking this into context, the more players we have grinding for drops with 1x rates we'd be able to reach similar drop chances (if not less) as compared to those using 4th job AOE ultimates. Note that RNG comes into play here and this is a tricky issue.

However I'd like to see the situation of population base catering to the Market before deciding the Drop rate aspect to fuel the economy. Most importantly, we need the server to have a clear goal, either its meant to be Vanilla rates or Vanilla but w minor tweaks?
Nostalgia is defined by many but with great differences, some define it by the Vanilla rates, some by Content (maps, etc) and Overall experience.

 

[xerta]

Yeah same here. If the playerbase is to big having a higher droprate on scroll might add a bit to many scrolls into the game that are intended. But as long as playerbase is low I see no reason to have a few extra scrolls since there will be less people hunting them. A progressive system that awardes a lower player base might be good!

 

[Rixon]

I chose 1.5x or 2x drop rates.

Times have changed imo - As we are getting older and more responsibilities are upon us - most of us simply cannot afford to play as much as the hardcore player that can afford to play for hours everyday. I do agree with you guys that the drop rates should be appropriate to the number of population base - but i think that the base number of players will be decided by the start because of the drop rates (and many other reasons as well). Many of my friends will not even simply give Phoenix/Revivalstory a chance because x1 is that demanding. I did like @Z00M's idea tho. After talking privately with one of the members of Revivalstory's staff - He talked about a certain problematic place - FOG - and how it could really lead to balance issues in the economy ("too many GFAs dropping -> too many high att WGs on market -> too many sins in the game"). IMO - i guess it's going to take a while until we even get FOG - and that's if it will even ever happen (I don't mean to be un-optimistic in any way - we are playing private servers after all - no matter how unknown the owner is and you guys know the drill). Casual players will simply quit quickly after they see that they cannot even find anything that they are looking for - even if they do find their wanted scroll - they attempt to use it and it fails - Most of them working adults will leave right away (happened to my friend in phoenix a few days ago). When i played OSM (I could put in the hours more than i could today tho) - It always felt great and fair in terms drop rates and i think many OSM players can relate - You had to put in the time but not your life to get your gear/scrolls. I believe that the drop rates really helped OSM to maintain 350-400 players for so many months. If OSM had pure GMS like drop rates - It would have been different.

I hope for the drop rates to be boosted or modified to an extent in the near future.

@EddardStark Thank you for starting this and i hope for more people to take part and share their points of view.

 

[Knivingdude]

NightsoulMS had something similiar to higher drop rates and at no point did it feel bad. The server ended up decaying anyways which was bad new bears but I don't think it was the drop rate at all.

Increased drop rates for scrolls? I could go for either way. Ultimately it might depend on what the developers want to simulate here.

 

[EddardStark]

Thanks for your input everyone.

Taking this into context, the more players we have grinding for drops with 1x rates we'd be able to reach similar drop chances (if not less) as compared to those using 4th job AOE ultimates.

I agree with most of your post but don't entirely agree with this part. I think unless there is FOG released at an early stage, higher level players would more than likely train at deep ludi maps which don't give many scrolls. I've only played on 3rd job servers and am speaking from my experiences of having played 4 different 3rd job servers so I'm not sure why the 4th job comment is relevant. Also I illustrated with my calculations, (1 scroll per 4.5million experience) there is not enough scrolls for even a single person, so I don't think we would ever have any sort of viable economy where these scrolls would be available for trade since everyone would barely have enough GFAs to make their own att glove.

Yeah same here. If the playerbase is to big having a higher droprate on scroll might add a bit to many scrolls into the game that are intended. But as long as playerbase is low I see no reason to have a few extra scrolls since there will be less people hunting them. A progressive system that awardes a lower player base might be good!

I think this is a fair point. I personally think it would be better to start at like 2x scroll drop chance and then maybe slowly adjust this over time to like 1.5x or lower if the player base does grow by that amount.

After talking privately with one of the members of Revivalstory's staff - He talked about a certain problematic place - FOG - and how it could really lead to balance issues in the economy ("too many GFAs dropping -> too many high att WGs on market -> too many sins in the game").

I agree. I think FOG is another can of worms to deal with since FOG also gives tobis which would lead to many more sins.
Honestly I think releasing FOG when there are many players who have reached level 9x+ would be a good option. It's still viable till like lvl 100 and releasing it then would allow newer players to catch up.

Only other comment I'll make is that one of the main reasons I was dissatisfied with Phoenix's gameplay is the 1/33,333 scroll drop chance. I got to about lvl 60 on Phoenix but it was hard to get motivated to grind when I felt like I was killing an endless amount of Jr. Yetis and the countless hours spent there weren't rewarding since I never got a GFA. I don't want the same thing to happen to this server, I think the 1x/adjusted exp table would be fine if scroll drop chance would be increased since this would motivate people to keep grinding.

 

[BadQuintrix]

1,5x exp and 1,5x scroll drop would be great hope that Will happen

 

[Z00M]

I chose 1.5x or 2x drop rates.

Times have changed imo - As we are getting older and more responsibilities are upon us - most of us simply cannot afford to play as much as the hardcore player that can afford to play for hours everyday.

Most importantly, we need the server to have a clear goal, either its meant to be Vanilla rates or Vanilla but w minor tweaks? Nostalgia is defined by many but with great differences, some define it by the Vanilla rates, some by Content (maps, etc) and Overall experience.

definitely agree.
However, this all depends if the admins want to keep this server Casual friendly or not, which boils down to the goal in mind they had planned.

I agree with most of your post but don't entirely agree with this part. I think unless there is FOG released at an early stage, higher level players would more than likely train at deep ludi maps which don't give many scrolls. I've only played on 3rd job servers and am speaking from my experiences of having played 4 different 3rd job servers so I'm not sure why the 4th job comment is relevant. Also I illustrated with my calculations, (1 scroll per 4.5million experience) there is not enough scrolls for even a single person, so I don't think we would ever have any sort of viable economy where these scrolls would be available for trade since everyone would barely have enough GFAs to make their own att glove.

I'd say you'd have to understand the direction im heading w in the paragraph. the reason why i brought up 4th job mage ultimate skill was solely to show the difference in ability to kill many mobs at a fast pace in contrast to 3rd job skills capability. And also on how RNG and %Probability is related to attaining a scroll drop.
Yes we can go along the 1 scroll per 4.5m experience, however we must acknowledge that RNG comes into play here as well when u have friends who are 10mins in and gotten a scroll OR over a day they've gotten more scrolls than u spending 1 week there. Also, not everyone needs an GFA scroll because u do have players maining a mage. Even so if everyone requires a GFA, as time goes by, once some Players who has scrolled a +11wg and decide to stop scrolling may contribute back to the market supply if they happen to have another drop of GFA or through quests in the future. Again, this all boils down to the admin decision and goal in mind for the server, Casual friendly or not. I suggest we shld not place too much optimistic views on changing the exp n drop rates until beta has ended.

Also: r you a FOGGER? for all things about FOG, rants and whatnot
:3
XOXO

 

[Rixon]

"Only other comment I'll make is that one of the main reasons I was dissatisfied with Phoenix's gameplay is the 1/33,333 scroll drop chance. I got to about lvl 60 on Phoenix but it was hard to get motivated to grind when I felt like I was killing an endless amount of Jr. Yetis and the countless hours spent there weren't rewarding since I never got a GFA. I don't want the same thing to happen to this server, I think the 1x/adjusted exp table would be fine if scroll drop chance would be increased since this would motivate people to keep grinding."

Exactly. 100%

I Truly believe pure GMS x1 drop rate it's simply too demanding for the casual/semi-hardcore player nowadays.
After all this corona stuff ends and we get back to our usual and more busy lives - i'd love to keep playing Revivalstory without feeling like it's impossible to progress. I'd like to upgrade my gear/farm for my needed scrolls without having to give my life away.

 

[Code]

One part of me is saying, yes we're older and no longer have the time we had when we were kids, therefore 1.5x is great. The other part of me is saying, the only way to truly experience a full-fledged GMS experience is by keeping it 1x.

 

[xdani99]

As a working student that doesn't have as much time on his hands - I'd love for x1.5 or x2 as well. GMS like drop rates are just too harsh even for the hardcore player in my opinion. I agree with @Rixon that times have changed. I would love to actually attain what I'm looking for without having to spend weeks of my life for nothing.

 

[Z00M]

btw theres a suggestions tab available

 

[Ezequiell]

i would prefer it to stay 1x, i came to play just like it was at the time, so i would like it to be as close of that as possible.

 

[juniormints]

Maybe I don't have that much experience in 3rd job servers and this is obvious to the rest of you (I only really played MG, and didn't make 3rd job in live servers until 2 or 3 years after 4th job came out), but why only apply the buff to scroll drop rates? Any issue with scrolls not dropping often enough also applies to things like weapons. Sure, scrolls are consumables, but increasing is running out of GFAs really that much worse than running out of pan lids? With more scrolling, we have more failed weapons/gear, and should need more of them dropping, right?

 

[EddardStark]

Maybe I don't have that much experience in 3rd job servers and this is obvious to the rest of you (I only really played MG, and didn't make 3rd job in live servers until 2 or 3 years after 4th job came out), but why only apply the buff to scroll drop rates? Any issue with scrolls not dropping often enough also applies to things like weapons. Sure, scrolls are consumables, but increasing is running out of GFAs really that much worse than running out of pan lids? With more scrolling, we have more failed weapons/gear, and should need more of them dropping, right?

I got to lvl 101 on Old School Maple which had a 2x scroll drop chance but 1x regular equip drop chance, and pretty much the economy felt balanced with those rates. The other thing is that weapons you have 7 slots to scroll so you'd need like 7x scrolls for one weapon. From what I remember off the top of my head, most of the high lvl weapons have between a 1/12,500-1/20,000 drop chance so weapons are far more likely to drop than scrolls (1/33,333). So considering that you need like 7x as many scrolls for every one weapon, I think the correct approach is to buff scroll rate and leave equip drop rate untouched.

Other point is that you don't want the high lvl weapons to be too common because then there isn't the same feeling of reward for the hard work you put in to find them. And the high lvl weapons once you get to a high enough lvl to farm them they aren't impossible to find since the statistical rate isn't that bad unlike scrolls.

 

[Robbery]

Always a flag bearer for 1x rates whenever applicable, but as pservers tend to have lower player bases -- and even more so 3rd job ones, I believe it would likely be in the server's best interest to increase the drop rate on scrolls. Not only does it assist those playing within the smaller playerbase, but it could be enough of a change to attract an extra handful of people who are on the fence about starting fresh (again), without it being too radical of a change.

I don't think equip drops need it, but if they get touched up as well I would increase them by less than whatever the scrolls get.

 

[Pacha]

1.5x - 2x drop

I was a OSM player. I never played / grinded for long in 1/1/1 servers because the rates are too demanding. Like most of people say, I like to be rewarded at the right value when I play (not too much, not too low). It gets me hooked and interested all the way, as a casual player and semi-hardcore by moment. I wish I had the time to spend many hours in the game but I don’t anymore.

 

[Rixon]

I got to lvl 101 on Old School Maple which had a 2x scroll drop chance but 1x regular equip drop chance, and pretty much the economy felt balanced with those rates. The other thing is that weapons you have 7 slots to scroll so you'd need like 7x scrolls for one weapon. From what I remember off the top of my head, most of the high lvl weapons have between a 1/12,500-1/20,000 drop chance so weapons are far more likely to drop than scrolls (1/33,333). So considering that you need like 7x as many scrolls for every one weapon, I think the correct approach is to buff scroll rate and leave equip drop rate untouched.

Other point is that you don't want the high lvl weapons to be too common because then there isn't the same feeling of reward for the hard work you put in to find them. And the high lvl weapons once you get to a high enough lvl to farm them they aren't impossible to find since the statistical rate isn't that bad unlike scrolls.

Always a flag bearer for 1x rates whenever applicable, but as pservers tend to have lower player bases -- and even more so 3rd job ones, I believe it would likely be in the server's best interest to increase the drop rate on scrolls. Not only does it assist those playing within the smaller playerbase, but it could be enough of a change to attract an extra handful of people who are on the fence about starting fresh (again), without it being too radical of a change.

I don't think equip drops need it, but if they get touched up as well I would increase them by less than whatever the scrolls get.

Maybe I don't have that much experience in 3rd job servers and this is obvious to the rest of you (I only really played MG, and didn't make 3rd job in live servers until 2 or 3 years after 4th job came out), but why only apply the buff to scroll drop rates? Any issue with scrolls not dropping often enough also applies to things like weapons. Sure, scrolls are consumables, but increasing is running out of GFAs really that much worse than running out of pan lids? With more scrolling, we have more failed weapons/gear, and should need more of them dropping, right?

Great comments.

After a little bit of testing with some numbers and playing with the calculator (That's what we have right now) - I 100% agree that scrolls should have x2 drop rates. About general drops and equips - I too would a little boost as well but i understand @EddardStark 's point completely - equips with 1/12500 aren't "that" hard to obtain after a little bit of a grind and x2 drop rates is far too much. That's why - @juniormints - For equips - I could see a 15%-20% of a boost to be a good middle ground (10% or below won't actually do anything IMO) - It can give that extra slight push of help but still make equips feel like a reward. For example - let's take a 20% of a boost - 1/20000 -> 1/16000 and -
1/12500 -> 1/10000.

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[wackyracer]

I'll make a contribution to this discussion by providing you all with the file that you need.

1.46 MB file on MEGA

That is the XML file that contains every single piece of drop data in RevivalStory. You're going to need a GM Handbook to refer to in order to figure out what the IDs are for the items, mobs, and whatever else.

For example:

<imgdir name="m0100100">
    <imgdir name="0">
      <int name="money" value="5" />
      <string name="prob" value="[R8]0.65" />
    </imgdir>
    <imgdir name="1">
      <int name="item" value="4000019" />
      <string name="prob" value="[R8]0.4" />
    </imgdir>
    <imgdir name="2">
      <int name="item" value="2000000" />
      <string name="prob" value="[R8]0.01" />
    </imgdir>
    <imgdir name="3">
      <int name="item" value="2040002" />
      <string name="prob" value="[R8]0.00003" />
    </imgdir>
    <imgdir name="4">
      <int name="item" value="2041001" />
      <string name="prob" value="[R8]0.00003" />
    </imgdir>
    <imgdir name="5">
      <int name="item" value="2060000" />
      <string name="prob" value="[R8]0.008" />
      <int name="min" value="10" />
      <int name="max" value="20" />
    </imgdir>
    <imgdir name="6">
      <int name="item" value="4010000" />
      <string name="prob" value="[R8]0.002" />
    </imgdir>
    <imgdir name="7">
      <int name="item" value="4020000" />
      <string name="prob" value="[R8]0.0015" />
    </imgdir>
    <imgdir name="8">
      <int name="item" value="2061000" />
      <string name="prob" value="[R8]0.008" />
      <int name="min" value="10" />
      <int name="max" value="20" />
    </imgdir>
    <imgdir name="9">
      <int name="item" value="1002067" />
      <string name="prob" value="[R8]0.0008" />
    </imgdir>
    <imgdir name="10">
      <int name="item" value="2010009" />
      <string name="prob" value="[R8]0.007" />
    </imgdir>

"<imgdir name="m0100100">" basically translates to the entry for mob ID: 100100, which is otherwise known as Green Snail. It can drop item: Snail Shell (4000019) at a 40% (0.4) chance. Further down the entry's tree you see the entry for 2060000, which is Arrow for Bow. Notice the rate is 0.8% (0.008) and has the minimum amount of arrow dropped in a single drop as 10 and the maximum as 20.

Hopefully that helped you understand how navigate through the file to find the information you want. I await the responses following this.

 

[Z00M]

That is the XML file that contains every single piece of drop data in RevivalStory. You're going to need a GM Handbook to refer to in order to figure out what the IDs are for the items, mobs, and whatever else.

thanks and gl finding ur items folks, may the odds forever be in your favour.