Suggestion: Increase scroll drop chance

[Code]

I think we need to keep in mind that the 1x drop rate was designed for a large amount of players where they were sold in larger quantities. This is not the case for RevivalStory. I therefore believe that a 2x drop rate makes a lot of sense.

 

[Rixon]

I think we need to keep in mind that the 1x drop rate was designed for a large amount of players where they were sold in larger quantities. This is not the case for RevivalStory. I therefore believe that a 2x drop rate makes a lot of sense.

^^^ Great Point ^^^ @Code

 

[Z00M]

I think we need to keep in mind that the 1x drop rate was designed for a large amount of players where they were sold in larger quantities. This is not the case for RevivalStory. I therefore believe that a 2x drop rate makes a lot of sense.

^^^ Great Point ^^^ @Code

I'd like 2x as well but lets not define Population size now as is too early to be said (we've yet to even enter beta).

 

[Code]

I'd like 2x as well but lets not define Population size now as is too early to be said (we've yet to even enter beta).

We have to take in account that Maplestory had over half a million active users at that time. I somewhat doubt that Revival will reach that. You can read the financial reports for yourself if you doubt my claims.

 

[Z00M]

We have to take in account that Maplestory had over half a million active users at that time. I somewhat doubt that Revival will reach that. You can read the financial reports for yourself if you doubt my claims.

A Larger population most oftenly means Larger demands, similar to Smaller population and Smaller demands.

 

[Code]

A Larger population most oftenly means Larger demands, similar to Smaller population and Smaller demands.

That's very true. The question is, will the population size reach the demand. I doubt it will unless it has 500+ concurrent players at all times.

 

[Z00M]

over time, it could. we'll definitely have players who've completed their gear at some point and can resupply the drops back into the market. think of it as a circular economy. note that I still do agree w 1.5x drops but the reason for this has to be clearly identified.

 

[Jugemu]

I voted for 1.5x or 2x. (2x would be the best but 1.5x is also cool)

My opinion on this is that 1x is fine in the case that the player base is big, but in the small scale player base that is expected from private servers like these, the 1x droprate is just abysmally low. I think the droprate should be increased to make it at least somewhat plausible to be able to scroll good gear.

 

[EddardStark]

I'll make a contribution to this discussion by providing you all with the file that you need.

1.46 MB file on MEGA

That is the XML file that contains every single piece of drop data in RevivalStory. You're going to need a GM Handbook to refer to in order to figure out what the IDs are for the items, mobs, and whatever else.

So I went through the data and can confirm my initial calculations are correct.
Jr Yeti. is mob 5100000 so m5100000 on the data file.
It drops item 2040804 which is Scroll for Gloves for Attack on the GM handbook. The rate is 0.00003.

As a percentage this is 0.003% and 100 divided by 0.003= 33,333. So therefore 1/33,333 Jr. Yetis will drop 1 60% Glove for Attack scroll.

This is the same for Hector which is mob m5130104. It drops Scroll for Cape for Dex 2041019 at the same rate of 0.00003.

 

[neophyte]

My question is this - what is the focus of this server? In the past, from what I can tell, preserving the old school experience was paramount. While several people mentioned the notion that other servers have had higher drop rates and felt fine, it is also true that there are or have been servers with 1x rates that have also been quite healthy. Basically, I wouldn't discard the notion of 1x so easily; it definitely has value, or else no one would have been willing to play it before or now.

That said, I definitely agree with what Code is getting at. If our desire is to preserve an old school feel, it doesn't necessarily mean keeping all rates the same - a 1.5x or 2x rate could actually better simulate the more vibrant economy of the past, in terms of supply and demand.

This is my thought process: while a smaller player base should mean both less supply and less demand, I believe that we have a much higher proportion of hardcore players than the official servers did. As a FTP game, MS attracted a large amount of casual players who would reach lvl 30, 40, perhaps do some valuable quests (Jane's quests) to generate 60% weapon scrolls, 10/60% gfas, but either quit or just play socially, remaining at low levels/gear. In these private servers, people are more experienced and more likely to know what items are valuable and desire them. I recall there being rampant inflation as people's meso counts continued to grow, while demand utterly outstripped supply (10% earring int: 5mil, to 50mil, to 100++?)

Therefore, I voted 1.5x or 2x. I personally lean towards 1.5x as it is more conservative, and it's easier to buff rates than to nerf them down the road. Either way, I think it makes the most sense in terms of the people who will be playing, the lives they are leading now, and the experience we wish to emulate.

 

[Rixon]

So I went through the data and can confirm my initial calculations are correct.
Jr Yeti. is mob 5100000 so m5100000 on the data file.
It drops item 2040804 which is Scroll for Gloves for Attack on the GM handbook. The rate is 0.00003.

As a percentage this is 0.003% and 100 divided by 0.003= 33,333. So therefore 1/33,333 Jr. Yetis will drop 1 60% Glove for Attack scroll.

This is the same for Hector which is mob m5130104. It drops Scroll for Cape for Dex 2041019 at the same rate of 0.00003.

Correct. Scrolls should be x2. No doubt about it imo.

 

[Martinho]

Is it possible to host 2x scroll drop events? If so, I'd vote for having 2x scroll drop events every weekend.
Events make it so that many people will want to play at the same time, resulting in a cozily crowded server every weekend.

 

[Z00M]

My question is this - what is the focus of this server?

Most importantly, we need the server to have a clear goal, either its meant to be Vanilla rates or Vanilla but w minor tweaks?
Nostalgia is defined by many but with great differences, some define it by the Vanilla rates, some by Content (maps, etc) and Overall experience.

likewise, lets await the admins reply

I believe that we have a much higher proportion of hardcore players than the official servers did.

Journal: Casual player or not?
doesnt speak for all future players but hey, its still statistics. also i believe most hardcore players has already went onto the other 1/1/1x server already.

I recall there being rampant inflation as people's meso counts continued to grow, while demand utterly outstripped supply (10% earring int: 5mil, to 50mil, to 100++?)

In a 3rd job server where folks are trying to just breakeven from spending NPC pots (good mesos sink) to grind (esp deep ludi), i doubt we can see folks willing to pay this amount anytime soon or ever. also I've yet to see this happen in the past few 3rd job servers

perhaps do some valuable quests (Jane's quests) to generate 60% weapon scrolls, 10/60% gfas

Well said, also I'd like to remind us that even w a 1x drop rate, these quests give a certain 100% scroll.

 

[wackyracer]

My question is this - what is the focus of this server? In the past, from what I can tell, preserving the old school experience was paramount. While several people mentioned the notion that other servers have had higher drop rates and felt fine, it is also true that there are or have been servers with 1x rates that have also been quite healthy. Basically, I wouldn't discard the notion of 1x so easily; it definitely has value, or else no one would have been willing to play it before or now.

That said, I definitely agree with what Code is getting at. If our desire is to preserve an old school feel, it doesn't necessarily mean keeping all rates the same - a 1.5x or 2x rate could actually better simulate the more vibrant economy of the past, in terms of supply and demand.

This is my thought process: while a smaller player base should mean both less supply and less demand, I believe that we have a much higher proportion of hardcore players than the official servers did. As a FTP game, MS attracted a large amount of casual players who would reach lvl 30, 40, perhaps do some valuable quests (Jane's quests) to generate 60% weapon scrolls, 10/60% gfas, but either quit or just play socially, remaining at low levels/gear. In these private servers, people are more experienced and more likely to know what items are valuable and desire them. I recall there being rampant inflation as people's meso counts continued to grow, while demand utterly outstripped supply (10% earring int: 5mil, to 50mil, to 100++?)

Therefore, I voted 1.5x or 2x. I personally lean towards 1.5x as it is more conservative, and it's easier to buff rates than to nerf them down the road. Either way, I think it makes the most sense in terms of the people who will be playing, the lives they are leading now, and the experience we wish to emulate.

"What is the focus of this server? In the past, from what I can tell, preserving the old school experience was paramount."

Correct, preserving the old MapleStory experience is essentially the focus of the server.

"I believe that we have a much higher proportion of hardcore players than the official servers did."

Quite a statement. I dunno about that one though chief. Possibly?

"I recall there being rampant inflation as people's meso counts continued to grow, while demand utterly outstripped supply (10% earring int: 5mil, to 50mil, to 100++?)"

That was one of the issues, yeah. Good point to bring up. I'll keep that one in mind.

"I personally lean towards 1.5x as it is more conservative, and it's easier to buff rates than to nerf them down the road."

I like the idea of raising the drop rate on scrolls because it would help simulate a more booming market. I just don't want to upset the game balance by making the mobs that drop GFA's the most meta place to farm making all other farming spots obsolete or just seen as a lesser choice.

I can confirm for those who aren't aware, Forest of Golem (FoG) will be available upon release.

Let's get some math in this thread. Anyone able to show me valid mathematical logic of tweaking the drop rates for scrolls has my immediate attention. Use my official drop info XML file when performing the math as well.

 

[EddardStark]

I just don't want to upset the game balance by making the mobs that drop GFA's the most meta place to farm making all other farming spots obsolete or just seen as a lesser choice.

I can confirm for those who aren't aware, Forest of Golem (FoG) will be available upon release.

Uhhh. Disrupting the game balance is exactly what FoG does. On Phoenix pretty much everyone from lvl 55-90 trains at FoG and doesn't train at any alternative training spots even though ludi and orbis are available. FoG also drops GFA 60% but the GFA 60% isn't really the reason as to why people train there, it's more to do with the crazy exp/hr and spawn. Also, even though Phoenix has so many people training at FoG there are still very few 10 att gloves on the server due to how low of a rate 1/33,333 is.

Let's get some math in this thread. Anyone able to show me valid mathematical logic of tweaking the drop rates for scrolls has my immediate attention. Use my official drop info XML file when performing the math as well.

Also wacky I'm not sure what you mean by this? I've already gone through the drop info on the XML file and stated the current rate of 1/33,333 and how it should be changed to 1/16,666 (2x) or 1/22,222 (1.5x)

 

[wackyracer]

Uhhh. Disrupting the game balance is exactly what FoG does. On Phoenix pretty much everyone from lvl 55-90 trains at FoG and doesn't train at any alternative training spots even though ludi and orbis are available. FoG also drops GFA 60% but the GFA 60% isn't really the reason as to why people train there, it's more to do with the crazy exp/hr and spawn. Also, even though Phoenix has so many people training at FoG there are still very few 10 att gloves on the server due to how low of a rate 1/33,333 is.



Also wacky I'm not sure what you mean by this? I've already gone through the drop info on the XML file and stated the current rate of 1/33,333 and how it should be changed to 1/16,666 (2x) or 1/22,222 (1.5x)

Sure you can say what you think is a good value for a drop rate increase, but you're tunneling fairly hard on Glove For Attack scrolls. Do all scrolls in the game share this really low drop rate that GFA has? I'd like to have knowledge on how increasing the scroll drop rate in general will affect the game as a whole, not just the people hunting GFA's. That's what I really meant to ask for.

 

[EddardStark]

Sure you can say what you think is a good value for a drop rate increase, but you're tunneling fairly hard on Glove For Attack scrolls. Do all scrolls in the game share this really low drop rate that GFA has? I'd like to have knowledge on how increasing the scroll drop rate in general will affect the game as a whole, not just the people hunting GFA's. That's what I really meant to ask for.

Ahh I see. And uh yes, if you look through the XML file pretty much all scrolls from regular mobs have a 1/33,333 drop chance. The only exceptions to this are the bosses: Mushmom, ZMM, Jr. Balrog, Crimson Balrog, and some mobs have an even lower rate of 1/50,000 e.g Platoon Chronos. I think the scroll drop chance for bosses could be left alone or pushed upwards very slightly as it is quite high. Mushmom has a 0.005 rate which is 1/200 for most scrolls.

I listed another example previously of Hector which drops Cape for Dex 60%. This is another scroll that is heavily sought after on private servers.

This is the same for Hector which is mob m5130104. It drops Scroll for Cape for Dex 2041019 at the same rate of 0.00003.

The same calculations apply whereby 0.00003 as a percentage is 0.003% and 100 divided by 0.003= 33,333.

 

[EddardStark]

I'd like to have knowledge on how increasing the scroll drop rate in general will affect the game as a whole, not just the people hunting GFA's. That's what I really meant to ask for.

I suppose to answer this part in some more detail: Other than Gloves for Attack 60% and Scroll for Cape for Dex 60% the most commonly sought after scrolls are: Claw 60%, Overall Armor for Dex 60%, Shoes for Jump 60/10%, Spear/Polearm 60%, Staff 60%, Shoes for Dex 60%/10%.

Scroll for Claw for Att 60% is farmed by Jr Cellions (mob ID on XML file: 3210200) and also the same rate of 0.00003 or 1/33,333 according to the XML file (item ID of Scroll for Claw Att is 2044701). The rate of 1/33,333 is extremely low. On ToV I grinded at Jr. Cellions from lvl 35 to lvl 48 and found 1 scroll.

Overall Armor for Dex 60% is quite difficult to obtain it inflated to 8-9m on ToV. The main reason for the inflation was that LPQ was not around and it is pretty much only farmable from Mushmom and like 2 quests: Terminating the Dark Force and Scadur's New Fur Coat.

Shoes for Jump 60% is again mostly obtainable from Mushmom and some other quests. Scroll for Shoes for Jump 10% some people in OSM opted to farm this by training at Pixie mobs which drop the scroll.

Staff Scrolls are obtainable from jr. pepe (mob ID on XML file: 5400000) (staff scroll item ID: 2043801 rate 0.00002 1/50,000 extremely low!). Many mages opted to train at those maps instead of other ones on OSM since most mages prefer staffs over wands.

Spear and Polearm I myself am not sure as to where the majority of those scrolls came from since I don't have much experience playing the warrior class.

Scroll for Shoes for Dex 60% was mostly farmed by Pink Teddy (Mob ID on XML file: 3110101). Item ID of Scroll for Shoes for Dex is 204701 which drops at the rate of 0.00002 on the XML file. Again this is 1/50,000 statistically which is extremely low.

So uh to summarise, increasing the scroll drop chance to 2x would be beneficial for increasing claw 60%, staff 60%, shoe jump 10%, glove att 60%, and cape for dex 60%, and shoe for dex 60% since the rate of all of those drops is 1/33,333 or 1/50,000 which is far too low.

 

[Jugemu]

I like the idea of raising the drop rate on scrolls because it would help simulate a more booming market. I just don't want to upset the game balance by making the mobs that drop GFA's the most meta place to farm making all other farming spots obsolete or just seen as a lesser choice.

I think one thing that may help solving this problem is tweaking the drop table. This might be seen as a spicy take considering that this server is supposed to emulate what the game was back in the day, but I think it would be extremely cool if some mobs that are considered worse to grind could get some extra scroll drops to make up for how much worse it is to grind there than in the most meta maps. If mobs that drop GFAs can't drop any other scrolls, while another mob can drop maybe two different scrolls that are less valuable than GFA, maybe people would consider grinding those mobs instead because it would mean a higher chance to get any scroll at all.
People would still be grinding GFAs, of course, but this would allow for other scrolls to appear more frequently on the market. I'd say this would be an especially good change for scrolls that are just unplausibly rare due to them only dropping from mobs that no one ever wants to grind. One such example is Pole Arm 10%, which drops from Evil Eyes and as a result basically never shows up on the market.

 

[Rixon]

@wackyracer

More examples on the current drop rates for scrolls based on our current XML file -

Earrings Int 60% - Rocky Mask/Lazy Buffy/Transformed Yeti/Commander Skeleton/Cold Shark - 0.00002% =1/50000
- Mushmom - 0.00008% = 1/12500 - I'm sorry but 1/12500 from Mushmom is just simply funny.

Earrings Int 10% - Klock - 0.00003% = 1/33333

Dagger Att 60% - Lorang - 0.00003% = 1/33333
- Propelly - 0.00002% =1/50000
- Master Soul Teddy - 0.00003% - 1/33333

Bow Att 60% - Jr. Lioner - 0.00003% = 1/33333
- Panda Teddy - 0.00002% = 1/50000

I can go on and on.
What we can learn from all of that is - It is going to be extremely hard to upgrade our gear if the drop rates will stay like this. I now fully understand why OSM doubled the drop rate for scrolls. It helped by making an healthier and more enjoyable economy and i'm really glad they did it. I can also understand that it can take a while to modify all of this - and only if wacky agrees - Especially since we are trying to be released as soon as possible (Maybe i'm wrong and there is a quick way).