POLL: How should the EXP be adjusted? (repost)

[EddardStark]

After Wacky's comments that the EXP is up for debate, I would like to start the very important discussion: How should this server's EXP table be changed? Hopefully these are all good options, please vote for the one which you think fits best with your vision for this server. If all of these are drastically different from your opinion feel free to vote other and specify.

I want to preface by saying, my intention is to be as unbiased as I can by putting forward Pros and Cons of each option and I truly want the best for this server to be successful in having a large playerbase, good player retention, and most importantly rewarding gameplay. There will be 5 different options and other please specify option.

Please also see Code's thread: Experience in Perspective for a useful visual graph on how a slightly different EXP curve would look like and other discussion on the matter. Also whatever the rate is specified take that as meaning 'rate less than the exp table', e.g 1.3x exp= '1.3x exp less than the exp table'.

OPTION 1 1x EXP

PROS:

1. Maintain the nostalgic experience i.e How GMS was intended to be played.
2. MG/TOV were already known as 1x and at many times had a solid playerbase.
3. The 10x quest EXP could make a lot of sense for early levels with 1x.

CONS:

1. I think the biggest con to this is that there is already Phoenix server which is a 1x server with all the same content. Perhaps players have reasons to play RevivalStory over Phoenix, but I myself do not understand the logical reason as to why there should be two 1x servers. Should future players not have the option of choosing between 2 different options and also to provide a point of difference between RevivalStory and Phoenix?
2. 1x is far too difficult for the majority of players. We need the learn from the lessons MG/TOV taught us and this is data OSM considered before making its server. From statistical data from TOV/MG out of 14,290 accounts created, only 12% made it past Lv. 30. I do not have the data on how many made it to Lv. 70, but I am fairly certain this number is less than 200. So from the data a very very small minority of the population across the 1 year life of a private server made it to Lv. 70 on a 1x server.
3. There is very little player retention since by Lv. 90 you are grinding for about 6-7% per hour (even less for other classes such as Bandit w/ no meso explosion and Bowman) and the sheer amount of play time required to level is too difficult for most players.
4. Zakum pretty much impossible.

OPTION 2 Slow progression, majority of gameplay (50-90) at 1.5x EXP.



PROS:

1. A somewhat conservative balance which acknowledges the difficulty of a pure 1x server while still keeping the difficulty GMS was known for.
2. Higher levels only receive a small amount of bonus (after lvl 90) compared to rest of population.
3. Would probably not let players outlevel content too quickly.

CONS:

1. Long periods of levels with not much EXP change between them (level 50-90 at 1.5x is a very very long period of gameplay).
2. The later levels after Lvl 90. will still be very very difficult.

OPTION 3 Fast progression, majority of gameplay at 2x EXP



PROS:

1. An option which has not been properly tried before and would provide a real sense of difference for this server. Before you say MapleLegends, take into account that I mean a 2x Third Job server so you will never have access to all the broken 4th job skills such as Magician ultimates.
2. Zakum would be achievable (Zakum has never been killed on a 3rd job server).
3. Allows higher levelled players (Lv. 80+) more motivation to grind as there is still the incentive to gain levels but the game is not extremely difficult until about Lv. 110+.

CONS:

1. Biggest con to this is outlevelling early game content far too quickly. Only a bit of solo training you would take your character to Lv. 35 and miss KPQ, and LPQ would also make Lv. 35-50 game far too easy.
2. Arguably a far step away from 1x/preserving the Old School experience.

OPTION 4 PROGRESSIVE EXP



PROS:

1. Easy to understand and 'more exp for more levels' would motivate continued gameplay and player retention.
2. Allows players to enjoy the early content e.g KPQ, LPQ since you don't outlevel them too quickly.
3. Helps ease the pain of Level 60-80 which is a difficult stretch for pretty much all classes as you've maxed all of your 2nd job skills and won't see another significant damage boost until late Lv. 70.
4. Makes Zakum achievable (maybe).
5. A point of difference amongst what other private servers have tried.

CONS:

1. Arguably this favours the high level players quite a lot as they do not feel the natural difficulty of the EXP curve. Some may see this as only catering towards the top players.
2. Possible for a large divide amongst new and older players due to more levels for more exp.
3. For some even though the EXP rises to 1.3x at Level 30 the game may still be too difficult for the lower level players.

My opinion is that this option would be the preferred option. It allows RevivalStory of keeping its identity and allowing players to enjoy the early content GMS was known for in KPQ and LPQ, while also keeping the possibility of Zakum for those that are willing to spend hundreds/thousands of hours grinding. Although some may see this as catering towards the high level players, the fact is that after Lv. 100 the game becomes insanely difficult. Most players at Lv. 100 onwards earn about 5-6% per hour, so is raising this to 10-12% really that unreasonable? I think that this option strikes a good balance between keeping many parts of the gameplay difficult, i.e Lv. 1-60 and then retaining players to keep playing as they see they receive more exp for more levels from Lv. 60-100.

OPTION 5 Regressive EXP



PROS

1. Would alleviate the concern of many players not reaching Lv. 30
2. Overall players would get to Lv. 50/60 probably much easier than the Progressive EXP model as it starts at 2x which is fairly easy and only after Lv 60 you'd see the true effects of the EXP curve decrease.
3. Keeps the later stages of gameplay still difficult and GMS like (Lv. 80 onwards).

CONS

1. This has already been done before by OSM and many thought it was a flawed model.
2. Many many players did not like this aspect of OSM as when they got to Lv. 50 they would see their bonus EXP steadily decrease into 0 and this would demotivate them significantly.
3. Zakum would be unattainable as the EXP curve after Lv. 100 is simply too difficult.
4. Although players would be very motivated in the short term, I see many many players losing motivation after Lv. 60.

OPTION 6 Other please specify

Please outline a different EXP option and outline your reasons and thoughts as to why.

To summarise, I myself think that OPTION 4, Progressive Exp would be the preferred option. I think it strikes a good balance of rewarding gameplay and player retention as more people will stay when they see 'more levels more exp'. I myself do not see much common sense in making yet another 1x server which has proven to have many flaws and little player retention. I truly believe that RevivalStory can be something great if the EXP is adjusted so please cast a vote and also feel free to comment and contribute to this discussion!

 

[Burning]

Option 3.

 

[Plusmine]

I personally voted Option 3. I'm fine with Option 4, too. If people think Option 3 is quite extreme with 2x directly from 50+, I wound't mind either nerfing it levels 50~70 down to 1,7x or so, so you get the full 2x (and the so much needed boost up to 80) at the start of 3rh job. But I'm ideally around those rates.

I know some folks in other servers used to play and grind way more seriously, and you plan to do so here when we launch. One way or the other, with [3] or [4], they'll reach 2x, or very close to it anyway, eventually.

But you know, I'm a casual guy and player, I'm just here for nostalgia, relax, playing some party quests and having fun. Most of my characters in servers got stuck around ~50, before I got bored and switched to another job. Reason I like the boost from there.

You got a point with people stuck and leaving before reaching Lv30, raw 1x rates are brutal, but I feel like people who plan to take the game and pservers more seriously (second job and beyond), do not care that much around early rates.

Perhaps players have reasons to play RevivalStory over Phoenix, but I myself do not understand the logical reason as to why there should be two 1x servers.​

Biggest reason for me is momentum. It would be really strange if we do not get hundreds of players at launch. The feeling of starting from scratch in a new server is really exciting, and a huge reason for me to play a new server over another. More people for party quests, economy growing from the bottom; it is more easy to meet new friends.

[Option 3] Arguably a far step away from 1x/preserving the Old School experience.
​

This may be a very personal take, but I don't think this is entirely true. I was very young when I started playing MapleStory, but I clearly remember arguably frequent 2x EXP events. On top of Cash cards. Experience came in quite big bursts, and playing in flat 1x was sometimes rare to me. I get a no cards policy, to make the server as less P2W as possible, but it does not mean up to 2x rates are directly non-nostalgic.

 

[xerta]

I belive our best bet are having a progressive exp system that comes into account after 50 or so.
Since we will have 10X quest exp and you have quests to around level 50 those first lvls should go by fast. (If you are just willing to do the quests.)

 

[EddardStark]

I personally voted Option 3. I'm fine with Option 4, too. If people think Option 3 is quite extreme with 2x directly from 50+, I wound't mind either nerfing it levels 50~70 down to 1,7x or so, so you get the full 2x (and the so much needed boost up to 80) at the start of 3rh job. But I'm ideally around those rates.

I know some folks in other servers used to play and grind way more seriously, and you plan to do so here when we launch. One way or the other, with [3] or [4], they'll reach 2x, or very close to it anyway, eventually.

But you know, I'm a casual guy and player, I'm just here for nostalgia, relax, playing some party quests and having fun. Most of my characters in servers got stuck around ~50, before I got bored and switched to another job. Reason I like the boost from there.

Thanks for typing your thoughts was helpful to read. I agree I wouldn't mind something along making option 3) go from 1.7x before going to 2.0x later.

Biggest reason for me is momentum. It would be really strange if we do not get hundreds of players at launch. The feeling of starting from scratch in a new server is really exciting, and a huge reason for me to play a new server over another. More people for party quests, economy growing from the bottom; it is more easy to meet new friends.

And yes I understand, it's just that I view it in the sense of long term player retention and sustainability. Sure any server will have that initial launch appeal, but long term it would just turn into the same server as Phoenix after more content is released with the same issues Phoenix has not addressed.

This may be a very personal take, but I don't think this is entirely true. I was very young when I started playing MapleStory, but I clearly remember arguably frequent 2x EXP events. On top of Cash cards. Experience came in quite big bursts, and playing in flat 1x was sometimes rare to me. I get a no cards policy, to make the server as less P2W as possible, but it does not mean up to 2x rates are directly non-nostalgic.

Good point

 

[EddardStark]

I belive our best bet are having a progressive exp system that comes into account after 50 or so.
Since we will have 10X quest exp and you have quests to around level 50 those first lvls should go by fast. (If you are just willing to do the quests.)

Fair enough. Do you think that Option 2) best addresses those concerns you have? Or do u think a completely different progressive EXP starting from Lv. 50 be a better choice?

 

[Foxxeh]

Fast Progressive make sthe most sense:

I tell you why. Back in the day 100% of all lvl 100+ DID use 2x EXP cards i bet. Not being able to get them here means that with 1x we would have a harder time than back in day.

 

[Ostre]

2x EXP cards didn't come out till v38(not full)/v39(full release). So I'd think most level 100+ didn't use them for a long time since they didn't exist.

 

[Plusmine]

2x EXP cards didn't come out till v38(not full)/v39(full release). So I'd think most level 100+ didn't use them for a long time since they didn't exist.

Thanks for your point.

Was that true for every server?
EMS fucked the timeline in quite some ways, and I remember them quite early, but I can be 100% wrong.
Not that it really matters, as this server is GMS based, anyway.

 

[Ostre]

Yeah EMS had aqua and 2x coupons within a few months after their closed beta wipe from what I can see.

 

[juniormints]

I decided to do the spreadsheets for what each of these would look like, and graph it out.
(note: tnl means to next level, so at level 1, its 15 exp to the next level at vanilla rates)
RevivalStory EXP Choices
I think having it on this sheet should allow us to play with the data a bit more than graphs, but feel free to repost the graphs here. I tried to get all relevant data in some usable form, but if there is something you think I should add, let me know

I think describing an exp change as 1.5x is a bad way to approach this, since wacky mentioned adjusting the actual exp, as opposed to doing exp modifiers, so I'm making these modifications to make my life easier. This is all based on how Wacky decides to implement, but to visualize the data, I don't think my assumptions/roundings are that crazy.

1.1x => 91%
1.2x => 83%
1.3x => 77%
1.4x => 71%
1.5x => 67%
1.6x => 63%
1.7x => 59%
1.8x => 56%
1.9x => 53%
2x => 50%

I'm also assuming that 1-30 at 1x and 30-50 at 1.3x means that the amount of exp to get from 30-31 will be 91% what it was in vanilla gms. Just to get the assumptions I made out in the open.
If there is anything you think I should add to this, or you have an idea you think should be added to the charts, let me know, or feel free to duplicate a sheet, and make the modifications you think (the charts should all fill in easier that way)

 

[neophyte]

I voted for option 4 (every 10 lvl progressive), for pretty much the reasons you laid out in the OP. Preserving the early game fun while making the middle and late game more possible, and it's pretty intuitive. I'd also be fine with either of the other progressive options (2, 3)

Something very important to keep in mind, though maybe outside the scope of this thread, is that if exp is boosted, a long stay in Victoria Island will quickly become stale. 3 months of Victoria when 1.5x++ exp kicks will be far too much IMO.

 

[UsoRemix]

I voted for Option 4, but with the understanding that we're modifying the actual exp to level, and not the exp provided by mobs. There was an announcement that quest exp is 10x the original, so this would make it even further more ridiculous to just quest your way to 50+.

Its an interesting thought, to think maybe we could just make the game similar to FFXIV, and quest to high level content, and then fight bosses for drops. I wonder if that is a worthwhile direction to look at, considering that FFXIV is so popular.

 

[Rex]

Personally like option 4 the best because it a smooth process. Every 10 level until 100 is being scaled rather than feel like you have large walls you climb you have multiple small walls to climb. As someone who done some translation work I can tell you there a HUGE difference in say translate 10k word document or 5 2k word document. Same workload but the latter feel infinitely better because you "complete" someone each time. Rewarding player with 0.1x exp each 10 lvl feels much better than say reward them 0.3x exp boost after 30 levels.

I don't want regress exp because yes it make early level easier but just make more likely for people to quit as the game feel its getting hard way faster because you already have exp require increasing a lot now the exp you gain decressing just feel bad.

 

[EddardStark]

Thanks for your replies and votes everyone.

I'll go ahead and confirm it right here. Discussions like these do assist in depicting a healthy and careful EXP table modification. It is officially up for debate.

Wasn't sure how else to tag you @wacky, was just wondering if you had any opinions/comments on this?
I know you're definitely busy with the bug fixing and the beta but I just feel as though maybe it would be a good idea to implement any proposed exp tables in the beta so that they are ready for launch.

 

[Halozy]

higher rates = higher player retention

 

[DrewDragoon]

In my opinion option 4 is the best with option 3 being a close second. Option 4 allows for all of the early game content to be enjoyed while also easing the extreme grind of later levels. It also differentiates the server from Phoenix by a large degree allowing players who want an easier time reaching end game to play this server instead. While those who want a pure 1x experience still have that option in Phoenix. Option 4 is also obviously the type of game that I personally want to play and enjoy.

 

[Z00M]

way too many exp threads out there imo, rather than splitting up the collective opinions and inputs, we shld just refocus on reworking the exp table as a whole so everyone can read it all at 1 place.
As i've previously worked on the exp table Our Reworked EXP Table, we can notice significant jumps of req exp tnl (to next lvl), hopefully if the goal is to smooth out the jump, it may be a better approach to the gameplay.

 

[Rex]

I mean isn't reducing exp and increasing exp rate the same thing? In the end it reduce the time required to grind to the next level to ensure a smoother leveling process. I do agree though the method you posted seem like a much smoother curve but same effect can be produced by increasing exp at those level to minic the effects.

I think over all its lot easier to change exp rate than to change the exp tnl. Lot of tedious editing of each try compared to the rate I think.

 

[Ostre]

1x otherwise I'll level too fast and quit