QoL accuracy changes for warrior

[Martinho]

Hi all,

A small suggestion regarding accuracy for warriors. I played warrior during the first release and loved the gameplay, however I really missed KPQ and don't like how I'll need crazy scrolled gear to challenge Mushmom.
My suggestion would be to lower the avoidability of these mobs to give Warriors a chance. Of course, I could just raise my dex, but that would be a waste since it's not needed for regular grinding.

1. Lower the avoidability of Ligators in PQ to 8, this would put them on the same level as Wild Boar. King Slime could use the same adjustment, however it's less important than the Ligators.

1 bis. (This idea was given to me by Quiet in the Discord)
Alternatively, adjusting the levels of PQ mobs would achieve the same result.​

2. Lower Mushmom to 20 avo. It would still make for a challenge, but at least it's doable. I've never understood why big, fat, slow Mushmom would have higher avoidability than tiny, agile Jr. Neckis. The same could be said about Jr. Balrog.​

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this accuracy change wouldn't overpower other classes as much. Maybe mages can kill Mushmom earlier than normal, but that's not necessarily a bad thing either since Assassins can kill her at lvl 40, 45(?).

Other mobs can stay as they are. I think monitoring your dex and acc is part of the warrior fun, it's just that PQ and boss mobs require you to make a suboptimal build while other classes don't have to.

Cheers! Cy'all in game!

 

[Kine]

I think there's sufficiently many other options for warriors to train at those levels. All classes have to make trade-offs on where to train. Because of that I think there's no need for the changes you have suggested.

 

[Martinho]

I think there's sufficiently many other options for warriors to train at those levels. All classes have to make trade-offs on where to train. Because of that I think there's no need for the changes you have suggested.

That's why I end my post by clearly saying other mobs don't need changing. KPQ is more than just training, it's where I usually fill up my buddy list. Not to mention the rewards you can get.

 

[Kine]

That's why I end my post by clearly saying other mobs don't need changing. KPQ is more than just training, it's where I usually fill up my buddy list. Not to mention the rewards you can get.

You're not wrong in saying that relationships are made in KPQ, but given the (hopefully) large number of people, you can make many friends going to the likes of Pig Beach, Mushroom Garden, Slime Tree and HHG.

The rewards part is indeed the portion of the PQ that would attract most people. Personally I had no issues with missing out on these rewards as a warrior, because other hunting spots have very nice rewards too, especially with 2x scroll drop rate. (Besides, they are often more potion friendly)

 

[Robbery]

This kinda seems like a lot. I believe that the solution to the problem should be playing a class that effectively handles the problem, not bringing the game down catering to the needs of a certain class.

I think it's kind of hard, maybe even redundant to criticize this on anything other than a personal preference level, since other things about the game has been changed. I could say, "Well since Warriors got the accuracy buff, we should remove the strength requirements on daggers. Managing dex to equip weapons is part of the fun, it's just these certain daggers that require you to go a sub-optimal build while other classes don't have to." Now, I don't think this is a very good example, and it's a bit more extreme, but I don't think it's unreasonable to end up somewhere along that line if something like this was changed. The slippery slope seems very real here, at least to me.

Idk it just gets real weird. It's not as simple as saying Maple isn't balanced so deal with it, since we acknowledge that by having already buffed certain things. So then the question becomes why can't warrior get this buff to kpq and mm? Unfortunately an arbitrary line has to be drawn somewhere when it comes to buffs/changes, otherwise everyone would just end up the same and that's no fun. I think given how strong the class is baseline more than makes up for missing out on this content but that's just me. Also I'm sure there's an ilbi joke in there somewhere...

 

[WillardDog]

You're not wrong in saying that relationships are made in KPQ, but given the (hopefully) large number of people, you can make many friends going to the likes of Pig Beach, Mushroom Garden, Slime Tree and HHG.

The rewards part is indeed the portion of the PQ that would attract most people. Personally I had no issues with missing out on these rewards as a warrior, because other hunting spots have very nice rewards too, especially with 2x scroll drop rate. (Besides, they are often more potion friendly)

"Figure it out chump tough luck #nochanges"
Not to put you down but that's kinda how it sounds.

Grinding in maps has less teamwork required. KPQ encourages more communication and cooperative play, and entails striving towards a common goal, which helps foster in game relationships nicely. Partying in the same map in first job entails only "i'll take left side"

With regard to scrolls, KPQ is known for OA dex 10% which warriors need too!

This kinda seems like a lot. I believe that the solution to the problem should be playing a class that effectively handles the problem, not bringing the game down catering to the needs of a certain class.

I think it's kind of hard, maybe even redundant to criticize this on anything other than a personal preference level, since other things about the game has been changed. I could say, "Well since Warriors got the accuracy buff, we should remove the strength requirements on daggers. Managing dex to equip weapons is part of the fun, it's just these certain daggers that require you to go a sub-optimal build while other classes don't have to." Now, I don't think this is a very good example, and it's a bit more extreme, but I don't think it's unreasonable to end up somewhere along that line if something like this was changed. The slippery slope seems very real here, at least to me.

Idk it just gets real weird. It's not as simple as saying Maple isn't balanced so deal with it, since we acknowledge that by having already buffed certain things. So then the question becomes why can't warrior get this buff to kpq and mm? Unfortunately an arbitrary line has to be drawn somewhere when it comes to buffs/changes, otherwise everyone would just end up the same and that's no fun.

think you're trying to employ the slippery slope argument for something much more trivial than you're making it sound.

I think given how strong the class is baseline more than makes up for missing out on this content but that's just me. (emphasis added)

1. "given how strong warriors are" you mispronounced mages bro. Also, you can't get mastery in 1st job, so warrior is not "strong". Good meme.

2. KPQ is literally peak nostalgic content for a game where the only reason we play is nostalgia. Gatekeeping content because weak slippery slope argument is just... lame.

Also I'm sure there's an ilbi joke in there somewhere...

all I can say to this is "reeeeeeeeeeeeeee"

 

[WillardDog]

for the record I'm very much in favor of KPQ changes.

Neutral towards Mushmom changes, and in the same vein Jr. Balrog. It's silly that the only class that can tank Jr. Balrog is the only class that has 0 incentive to go kill it.

And don't tell me warrior's are just "not meant to kill it" because the first maplestory trailer clearly showed warriors battling Jrog with the other classes!

sins are gonna be upset because "we need stars" but the rest of us need you to buy them from us

 

[Martinho]

This kinda seems like a lot. I believe that the solution to the problem should be playing a class that effectively handles the problem, not bringing the game down catering to the needs of a certain class.

I appreciate your opinion, but there are a few problems I have with this statement.
First, I don't want to choose my class based on the ability to do KPQ or kill Mushmom because they only make up a small portion of the game. The accuracy puzzle is one of these things that makes playing a Warrior fun to me, however in solving this problem I realize how unfair PQ and boss mobs are to Warriors. They're basically the only class that gets excluded from this small but fun part of the game.
Second, the changes I suggested are not a lot nor do they bring the game down. If I would suggest to lower the amount of dmg done by Mushmom, that would bring the game down. Adjusting the avoidability of two (maybe three) mobs is a very small change, mostly because other classes are not affected by this.

Unfortunately an arbitrary line has to be drawn somewhere when it comes to buffs/changes, otherwise everyone would just end up the same and that's no fun.

I agree that a line has to be drawn and too many QoL changes don't benefit the game either. A small adjustment to avoidability to make KPQ and Mushmom more accessible for Warriors doesn't mess with class identity though. Warriors still need to monitor their accuracy and dexterity throughout the game. The only thing that can be said in terms of class identity is that we can scratch "no KPQ or bosses" from the Warrior disadvantages list which doesn't harm the game imo.

I think between KPQ and Mushmom, adjusting KPQ makes the most sense. It's the bigger, more social aspect of the game.

 

[Robbery]

1. "given how strong warriors are" you mispronounced mages bro. Also, you can't get mastery in 1st job, so warrior is not "strong". Good meme.

No, I meant warrior. The game doesn't end at first job.

And don't tell me warrior's are just "not meant to kill it" because the first maplestory trailer clearly showed warriors battling Jrog with the other classes!

It also shows beginners...and one of them uses a bow. One thing it doesn't show is their stats, maybe the warrior just added dex.

The only thing that can be said in terms of class identity is that we can scratch "no KPQ or bosses" from the Warrior disadvantages list which doesn't harm the game imo.

It may not harm the game sure, but it definitely has impact via increased amount of OA Dex and mm competition. Also keep in mind that plenty of warriors still do KPQ by making the groups themselves.

 

[WillardDog]

"No, I meant warrior. The game doesn't end at first job."

KPQ is first job only though. That's the point.

Also, what are the downsides to increased amount of OA Dex scrolls? I also think that is an inaccurate conclusion. As you said, warriors can still do KPQ by simply being party leader. IMO this isn't necessarily about making KPQ possible for warriors to accomplish, but feasible. This is about QoL. Warriors can do KPQ, lead KPQ, etc, but they are completely dead weight when it comes to killing ligators or King Slime unless they go high dex in first job.

If there are only 4 warriors in Kerning, then there is no viable KPQ party. This is simply unfair.

 

[Martinho]

If there are only 4 warriors in Kerning, then there is no viable KPQ party. This is simply unfair.

This is the best argument. It won't be a problem in the first weeks after release, but in a few months there won't be that much lvl 2X players to assemble your party with. Imagine needing a Magician and only finding a Warrior...

 

[Robbery]

KPQ is first job only though. That's the point.

I get that your point specifically only looks at first job. Mine is that warriors are strong looking at the game as a whole, not just KPQ.

Also, what are the downsides to increased amount of OA Dex scrolls?

Never specified there was a down side. "It may not harm the game. sure ..." only that it would have an impact on the game. I suppose it could seem like I was implying that it would have a negative affect, but I more so meant it would be a relatively big change up to the game.

If there are only 4 warriors in Kerning, then there is no viable KPQ party. This is simply unfair.

How does a group of people picking what class they want to play make it unfair? lol

 

[Martinho]

It's unfair that Warrior is the only class that has "not being able to do PQ" as their job description.
I can see how "not the best PQ class" can be part of class identity, but completely being left out of a unique part of the game is unfair. Unless you make an AP build that is suboptimal for the rest of the game of course.

 

[Ikki]

Wait 1 week and you can sit afk in kpq like all the warriors do? (free kpq carry) acting like you cant kpq when the biggest problem after launch will be not having 4 players... I mean seems kinda impulsive and alot of effort just to fix a problem that doesn't exist after first few weeks. Its like saying we should nerf thieves because they get easier spots in Lpq, but thats part of the game, pros and cons of warriors. At least as a warrior making it to 3rd job, we all KNOW you are badass.