Feedback Regarding the Removal of Secondary Stat Requirements on Armor

[Jugemu]

As the title suggests, I want to make a thread to share my thoughts on the removal of the requirement for secondary stats on armor for thieves and mages.

First of all, I think it is a brilliant idea to do something about it, and it is an area that I have really wanted to be changed on private servers for a very long time, which is why I am a bit passionate about this topic. Maybe my feedback can get a discussion going on whether it needs to be looked at further or not.

My thoughts on the way Revival is choosing to handle it are as follows: It is a great step in the right direction and it is fantastic for magician classes as it is, but it does not fix the problem entirely for thieves in my mind. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, but please do hear me out.
The one part that is still a problem even with this fix is the fact that thieves, whether or not there are stat requirements on armor, will still gravitate towards overalls because of their potential for scrolling. The document mentions that this design choice is in part to avoid having every thief run around in sauna robes in the end game, but that will still happen as long as A: There is no other choice for overalls, or B: tops and bottoms get scrolls on par with Scroll for Overall Armor for Dex.

I see two possible solutions for this. For A: custom overalls for higher levels than just sauna and Avenger and for B: introducing scroll for top for luk and scroll for bottom for dex into the game. I personally think option A hurts the nostalgia factor of the server, and the best option would be B.

And there you have it. These are my thoughts on the matter, and I would love to hear from the community if you guys have anything to say about it. Perhaps I am completely in the wrong here? Please go ahead and tell me whether you agree or disagree, or if you have other ideas on how it could be balanced.

EDIT: If option B, then Top Str scrolls would also need to be added, for the sake of balance as well as an incentive for warriors to wear their tops and bots as well.

 

[Dirty]

I do not like the changes to remove secondary stat requirements from the game. Because the magic cap for mages is 999 magic + buffs. So no matter what you will have left over points to allocate into luk, hp, or mp. I much like the idea of adding additional scrolls like bottom dex and top luk to fix the theif sauna problem. If secondary stats are removed on theif gear then it’s just brain dead get the highest level shoe and glove. Additional scrolls

 

[Potatofarmer33]

I do not like the changes to remove secondary stat requirements from the game. Because the magic cap for mages is 999 magic + buffs. So no matter what you will have left over points to allocate into luk, hp, or mp. I much like the idea of adding additional scrolls like bottom dex and top luk to fix the theif sauna problem. If secondary stats are removed on theif gear then it’s just brain dead get the highest level shoe and glove. Additional scrolls

It will still help you reach that magic cap earlier.

 

[Flash]

I always hated Sauna robe meta.

If you don't want to lose out on alot of dmg, you HAD TO use one. Which results in pressure to scroll one, which is kinda really hard on a pserver that has at best a few hundred players and lots of thiefs that buy all the robes. Not even talking about DEX scrolls, that aren't too rare, but you gotta compete with every other job except mages.

With this change, the difference between someone using regular gear vs someone with Sauna at least won't be that huge anymore and takes off some pressure to scroll a godly sauna. And maybe we will get bot/top scrolls, which will make regular gear alot better anyways.

Another thing that always bothered me, is that only females have their Lv35 Overall like.... Wtf? First they can buy tons of them cos they drop at zlupins where every Cleric and bandit grinds for a long time AND they start off with 4/5 dex.

IMO adding a male overall would already help tons to make it more fair.

 

[Martinho]

A feature that I'd probably enjoy would be if matching top and bottom were treated as an overall, but I guess that's too much of a hassle to implement.
Easier would be to combine the level 35 Thief top & bottom into an overall and remove the separate parts from the game. I hope I'm not being reductive, but I think this would only require some minor graphical work.

 

[Code]

Wonderful idea, I remember in EMS this was big. You had the overall sins and the top bottom sins. Whereas the overall sins were stronger early, but the top bottom sins were better late game. I think that option B you have provided is only going to be rewarding and also helps the economy + gives people more diversity of choice.

 

[VVhite]

I dont mind option B as long as you also add top str scrolls. The tricky part would be deciding where these scrolls should drop.
I suggest locking 1 scroll behind Bains as the drops there are pretty lackluster. Im also going to assume that wacky will heavily delay Ludi, and Bains being more attractive would make it more bearable.

 

[Jugemu]

A feature that I'd probably enjoy would be if matching top and bottom were treated as an overall, but I guess that's too much of a hassle to implement.
Easier would be to combine the level 35 Thief top & bottom into an overall and remove the separate parts from the game. I hope I'm not being reductive, but I think this would only require some minor graphical work.

I was thinking about that too actually, but then that would raise the question of whether you can still use top and bot scrolls or not.

I dont mind option B as long as you also add top str scrolls. The tricky part would be deciding where these scrolls should drop.
I suggest locking 1 scroll behind Bains as the drops there are pretty lackluster. Im also going to assume that wacky will heavily delay Ludi, and Bains being more attractive would make it more bearable.

I should have mentioned that in the thread to begin with. Top str needs to be a thing too, otherwise there's no incentive for warriors to wear their tops. Top Str and Bot Dex will actually make tops and bottoms viable for warriors.
While I agree that Bains could use some more rewarding drops, I also wouldn't want these scrolls to become incredibly rare because no one ever hunts the mobs that drop them, so I wouldn't mind them dropping from multiple other mobs along Bains. Maybe they only drop from Bains for the entire duration of the El Nath/Orbis patch and then they could be added to more mob droptables in later updates.

 

[Senk]

I can tell you that the decision to remove secondary stats was done with option B in mind. Though the additional scrolls most definitely won't be available on release.

 

[Jugemu]

I can tell you that the decision to remove secondary stats was done with option B in mind. Though the additional scrolls most definitely won't be available on release.

Hooray! That is of course fine. I think the perfect time to introduce them would be with the El Nath / Orbis patch because that's when the avenger meta starts for real. With avengers easily available in the store, people will really gravitate towards them if there are no top and bot scrolls.